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First-Time Obedience and Other Parenting Issues That Have No Quick Fix
By Kendra | October 29, 2008
Dear Kendra,
I have three girls, a 5.5, 2.5, and an 11-month-old. My girls are good, but I have not been consistent with the first time obedience and things are frustrating around here. I was encouraged by your remarks on teaching obedience before school stuff and we will be officially starting that soon. I went to the Godly Tomatoes site and thought that all made sense and could be done. And I spent time in the Word, studying what God has to say about discipline. It is pretty clear He expects it. So I set out to “stake them” and had a few good days where I was really able to stay ahead and those were great days. But then I am not consistent for a second, it seems, and we are back to the beginning. I am just pretty discouraged.
I know you don’t know me and if I knew anyone around me that was doing this with their kids, I would be right there talking to them about it. But I don’t know any families that are requiring first time, every time obedience, and I guess I am looking for a little encouragement. I wonder if you started requiring first time obedience from the beginning with your kids or if there was a time when you realized things weren’t as good as they could be…do you have different expectations of a two-year-old in training (like when they get distracted with a toy, would you remind them to come if they were in the process of getting to you or would they get the swat then for not obeying?) I don’t want to be a mean old dictator, but I feel like if I say it, they should do it. I know they are capable for the most part.
Alicia B in MO
Hi Alicia-
We took a popular parenting class early on in our parenting that ruined us in one aspect. The course communicated that if we just did A, B, C, and D, our children would be virtually trained and perfectly behaved by the time they hit six. *snort*
I remember having a young woman in my home after our fourth was born and I was whining to her about how much I repeat myself to the then 6, 4, and 2-year-olds. She being one of ten children wisely said, “Oh Kendra! It’s precept upon precept”. Yes. It is. And so we say things over and over and over during their short childhoods. Over and over.
But. We do train them to respond immediately, and not because we want to be dictators, but because God does require children to obey their parents. Period. He is wiser than we are, and we as parents are wiser than our children are. They need to trust us and obey us.
There’s the complimentary part to first-time obedience: trust. If we are loving on our children, responding in kindness, patient, and joyful, they will be trained to obey us out of their trust of us. That comes with a little time and experience, though, so in the earliest years, they do need to be trained to immediately obey.
I like to set up training opportunities, and typically one of the first training sessions is when we teach a little guy to come to us. The older kids and I will sit in a circle and call the little one to us, one by one. When I say, “Come to Mommy!” and the little guy obeys right away, we all cheer. Then another child will say, “Come to me!”, and we all cheer again when the little one obeys. It’s fun training, and it pays off. A child that will come right away when called by his family is a safer child. I always cringe when I see a child bolt after being called by his mother in a public place. Inevitably the child laughs, the parents laugh, and then that little one is consequently trained to be disobedient. And run into danger, as the case may be.
I don’t want to discourage you, but I do see disobedience rear its ugly head every once in awhile in my older kids, too. Seems sometimes the will to do as they please overtakes their desire to obey. That sounds vaguely familiar, doesn’t it?
“For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.” Romans 7:15 (written by Paul, of course. He was, incidentally an adult when he wrote this. Let’s not expect more from our children than we do of ourselves.)
Peace-
Kendra
Topics: Life with Preschoolers, Training Little Ones | 23 Comments »
October 29th, 2008 at 3:41 am
Oh, I needed this reminder this morning. Thanks.
October 29th, 2008 at 6:26 am
Oh Alicia, I have recently been where you are! The number one thing that helped me was finding a new church and watching other moms interacting with their children. Kendra is right that we shouldn’t expect more from our children than we expect from ourselves. But that might lead to us lowering our expectations of our children based on our shortcomings–so I prefer to think of it as holding myself to the same standards as I hold my children–God’s standards! Teaching my little ones to sit still actually helped a lot with first time obedience. I sat them on chairs for x amount of time and taught to sit still while I either read a book, puttered around, or even listened to part of one of our pastor’s sermons online. During that training session I would stop every time to correct them if they were trying to get down, talking, whining, etc…That was much less exhausting than being 100% consistent all the time (I tried tomato staking and had the same results as you). I do strive for consistency, but my little ones are 4, 2 and barely 1 so there are times where I simply can not address every issue I need to address at the moment. Anyways, that helped us tremendously! I also taught them to come as Kendra did. Finally, a routine or schedule and planned activities are so helpful (thanks Kendra!). A child who knows what is expected and knows what is coming next argues and whines less! My oldest two were simply awful when we started this–less than a month later they were sitting quietly through church services, we could go out to dinner as a family and enjoy it for the first time, and we were getting compliments on kids behavior from other moms in the grocery store. Don’t get me wrong–it is still work. But God is so faithful–I tell every mom who stops me that it is all by God’s grace!!! My flesh is way too lazy and selfish to handle these children on my own–but I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me! Pray and have faith sister!
October 29th, 2008 at 6:36 am
I am right there in the training of 1st time obedience. And I know others look at me and think I’m crazy for expecting my almost 3 yr old adventurous boy and my 20 month old girl to obey… and I even think I’m crazy some days in the midst of training….
But when I’m out in public with all three of my kiddies 4 and under, I NEED then to obey immediately!!!! So we will continue to expect first-time obedience…
Thank you Kendra for your reality check and encouragements!!!!
October 29th, 2008 at 8:21 am
how much reminding is normal? cause i feel as if that’s all i do.
October 29th, 2008 at 9:15 am
Michelle-
This is why we need to know our children, and why there is no formula for parenting. That’s what railroaded us early on; we believed that if we just did what the authors laid out as a blueprint, we’d have obedient and holy children.
God has set up the parent/child relationship to be that of discipler/disciple. We are called to know the child and gear our discipline toward each individual one. Therefore, the answer to your question is more questions:
Are you reminding a little one who has simply forgotten, or are you reminding a little one who is being defiant? Only you can answer that. In our home, the reminder for simply being a forgetful child (and I mean little child… the older ones have consequences for forgetting if it’s an ongoing issue- one son pays me every time he forgets to take the scrap bowl out to the chickens) is a gentle verbal, “Did you forget?” But the reminder for defiantly “forgetting” is discipline.
Hang in there! Sometimes I feel like I should just make a recording of my voice, and often I feel as if I have become white noise ;D Just this morning I told my children that I am raising my voice too often and that’s a sign that they are out of the habit of obeying right away.
~Kendra
October 29th, 2008 at 9:36 am
What a wonderful encouragement this post was!! Thank you Kendra and thank you to all the ladies who shared here. I have 3 little boys 4 and under and I, too, am trying to be consistent and train them to obey the first time, every time but most days I feel like a broken record
My biggest challenge is that my middle child (a nearly 2 1/2 yo boy) is stubborn, strong-willed and very defiant. Most of our problems occur when I am tending to the baby and temporarily “unavailable” to police him. My oldest is fairly obedient most of the time. Usually just needs a quick reminder to obey immediately (how do obey mommy? all the way, right away, and with a happy heart). Anyone with suggestions on controlling the 2yo while I’m tending the baby? God bless.
Krista
October 29th, 2008 at 10:07 am
I’m really trying to work on first-time obedience with my preschoolers–they’re not awful, but I’ve let discussion get out of hand and a lot of things went to seed while I was pregnant with twins. I want to get the older ones cooperating fully before I have to start training the babies!
But I find consistency impossible to maintain for any length of time. If I’m on top of them all day long for everything, sooner or later my brain just shuts down. You know that kid who’s always got their nose in a book or staring out the window and doesn’t remember what you just said to them? Well, that’s me, only I’m the Mom. I try, I really, really try, but I can’t stay down on the ground for 14 hours a day. At some point I can no longer even see what’s happening right in front of my nose, even if it’s pouring water on the wood floor. I’ve tried cutting out internet and books, but it doesn’t help.
We have a pretty good routine, we don’t have any outside distractions at all, but the reality of having a 4, 3, and two 3-month old babies is that 95% of the time someone is hungry, crying, injured, lonely, disobeying, whining, having a potty accident, wanting to be held or SOMETHING. And a good portion of the time it’s two or more. How on earth do I stay on top of things? How to prioritize?
October 29th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Kendra, thank you for the reminder about “trust” being so key. I needed that today!
Queen of Carrots, you are in a very unique situation, with SO many needs all at once! I do relate…I had a 5, 2.5 and 2 newborns just 3 years ago. Your situation is still quite fresh in my mind. In many ways, you are in survival mode, most likely physically exhausted most of the time. Please don’t be too hard on yourself. Just purpose to spend some time praying and reading the Word yourself, and to respond kindly to your children, and truly, they will be OK. Now is not the time to try to implement a complicated parenting/discipline method. You are living day-to-day, and God’s grace is huge. Saying a prayer for you,
Shawna
October 29th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
I have a 6 yr old, an almost 3 yr old and a 14 month old. My middle girl is very disobedient these days, seemingly out of nowhere. For the first time, if I say STOP in the parking lot, I’m not sure if she will. Twice I have had to chase her down and was mortified! So we are definately working on the obey the first time RULE. The thing is it’s NEVER too late to start! And what would be the alternative anyway, to give up? That’s an option we moms don’t have! I’m having to learn all this the hard way, but reading that I’m not alone in these struggles really helps. I am way behind on training my middle girl b/c the birth of our third so soon really took a toll on me. But now that we are all coming out of the fog, I am trying to get to the business of training my 2 youngest (while re-training the 6 yr old) without beating myself up over the time lost, or the consistency I failed to have in the past.. Looking behind does no good. It is a lot of CONSTANT correction, repetition, and some days exhaustion! But I have to believe it will pay off, and that massive amounts of caffeine and my JESUS will get me through!
October 30th, 2008 at 4:45 am
Thanks for this post. Also the Raising Godly Tomaotes site has a very active message board where you can post specific questions and get answers. Often Elizabeth herself will answer, which is super helpful. I agree with the previous mom who said it is never to late to start. First time obedience may save your child’s life, and by training your child to obey the first time, you are obeying God.
October 30th, 2008 at 5:47 am
Also for those who need to refocus on training, “boot camp” is a great place to start. You can email me if you want the boot camp article.
October 30th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Wow. I hear all of you guys talking and I realize I am coming out of some of that fog and survival mode. I had 3 boys, 3 and under, and IT WAS HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There were many many times when I just made it through the day, my goal being not to raise my voice at anyone! (honestly, that is still my goal. ha!) Now that youngest boy is 4 and even though I have a little 18-month-old girl, things are not as hard as they were. A few things that helped me through:
During nursings or other times when the baby needed my undivided, I trained the older two boys to play on the couch or arm chair. They’d grab some books and small toys and they had to stay on that couch and play until I told them they could get down. They could jump, hang upside down, whatever, as long as their feet did not hit the floor. INCREDIBLY helpful.
Freezer meals–is it just my home that turns into a 3-ring circus between 4 and 6pm? With a nursing baby and toddlers, it is mayhem, and having a meal that you thawed that morning and threw in the oven at 4 means that all you have to do is set the table. I never cooked 30 meals at a time, but having 2 or 3 a week would get me through.
Not clinging to the a+b=godly children stuff. I was well saturated in that as a homeschooled kid, and I still fight the tendency to despair when I’ve “done it right” for weeks, and my kids still needed 42 training sessions each that day! You really do have to just keep saying the same things over and over, keep training for the same kinds of disobedience, keep loving and hugging and smiling when you don’t feel like it. There is no magic spell to poof us out of our depravity and these sinful bodies. Don’t be mortified if your children disobey, as if it were a reflection on your parenting. It isn’t. It is merely God pointing you toward a child’s behavior/heart attitude He wants you to work on right now.
So roll up your sleeves, grab that cuppa coffee, praise God that you have children to love, and go to it. :0)
October 31st, 2008 at 8:05 am
I forgot that you can read the boot camp article here-
http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/purityseekers/207046/
October 31st, 2008 at 11:35 am
Wow! Thanks Kendra for your great insight into child training. I needed to be reminded that A + B does not equal a perfectly trained child! I loved reading all the responses and the reminders to smile and be nice to our children.
You have a great website. Thanks for your ministry!
Blessings,
Jennifer
October 31st, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Thanks for the reminder, the transparency, and the humor. You are such an encourager. Blessin gs on you.
October 31st, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Kendra, thank-you once again. What a timely reminder! I have 4 children (all under 5) and feel totally lost in regards to training some days. My extended family do not hold my values and it is difficult to find support from them. (They believe I am simply too strict!) Thank you for reminding me that my need for first-time obedience is not selfish or harsh, but God-pleasing. I like your little game… I may just have to give that one a go! And your other commenters have some great ideas and encouragement too.
October 31st, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Oh, Kathleen made this comment: “Don’t be mortified if your children disobey, as if it were a reflection on your parenting. It isn’t. It is merely God pointing you toward a child’s behavior/heart attitude He wants you to work on right now.” I just wanted to say that that comment hit me right between the eyeballs!
January 6th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
I’m new to this site, but I also have small children. I have two boys, 4 and 21 months. I’m expecting our third this summer. Discipline, training, raising godly children, these are all areas of great struggle for me. It’s so encouraging to read the comments and realize afresh that this struggle is nothing new and nothing uncommon. But it’s a blessing to also know that God has not given us a task too great as mothers. His grace is sufficient, even for rebellious and defiant toddlers and preschoolers.
I have to constantly remind myself that these little people are sinners, as I am, and without God’s grace they cannot learn to obey. So, my encouragement is to PRAY for children, in the midst of all the constant training, re-training, discipline, discouragement etc of every day! Pray for them, pray for yourself and your husband, that the Lord would work mightily on behalf of your family!
December 9th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Hi! I am new to the site & love it. I am writing because my adopted 3 year old is having his challenges first time obedience. Our local Baptist school has a Christmas musical performance next Wed, Dec 15th, and the preschool class is performing a song. The teacher has been working with my son, but has been unable to have his behavior change. Do you have any behavioral modification changes or correction techniques that have worked with your kids or with other kids you are familiar with??? I adopted my son from birth, thus behavioral problems would not be from change of families.
Specifically, my son is not keeping his hands to himself, and he is leaving the line, running out of the group, to pick up whatever he can find on the floor. The teacher had to give my son time outs, and then he would cooperate – but it took time out of her practice to deal with my son’s bad behavior. And, in the classroom, my sonl isn’t obeying the rules — and is running around, not sitting nicely, just totally disorderly.
If I threaten my son not attending preschool if he can’t behave, do you think that is the solution??
December 9th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Hi Priscilla-
I’m probably not the best person to help you with this; my littlest people are home and not in a school setting. I DO have experience with 3yo boys, though, and my experience has been that self control is a process to be learned over time. A teacher in a classroom cannot give your son the consistent training he needs, nor the love you provide as his mother. It just isn’t realistic to expect that from any teacher with more than one student. So, perhaps you’ve stated the best solution- keep him home and start to train him to be by your side and see what self control looks like, from the person who loves him the most! If that’s an option, it would be an investment you would never regret.
Hope that’s helpful.
February 17th, 2010 at 6:39 am
Kendra,
I would like to start by thanking you for taking the time out of your busy life to bless women like me who are starting out on the journey. To give you a little background – I have a 5 yr old, 3 yr old, and 15 month old and we are doing kindergarten. All three pregnancies were hard, but the last was the worst – leaving me sick for most of the time including 3-4 months after his birth. During this time my two older children became very used to being independent and entertaining themselves. At the time this seemed like a blessing, but as I am becoming more involved and trying to structure their lives a little more, I am realizing their are areas of training that have definately been missed. I find myself yelling and I know that we are getting nowhere. It is a battle to get them to clean their rooms, or do anything else they deem “boring,” and their attitudes need an adjustment. I feel like I have lost my authority (if I ever really had it) and am not sure I understand how to obtain first time obedience. This is not how I was raised and although it represents our values I don’t know where to start. I have been reading your posts on training little ones and I believe that your family’s approach is what we are looking for. I don’t expect you to explain all of this on your blog, but I was hoping you might have some resources that you have found to be helpful in this area.
My husband and I are committed to homeschooling as we truly believe it to be God’s calling for our family, but we need to do some catchup on the parenting front if that is going to successful.
Sorry that this is so long and thank you again for sharing your hard earned wisdom.
God Bless,
Christina
February 17th, 2010 at 7:07 am
Hi Christina-
I can feel your frustration, and I am sorry things are so difficult right now. I’ll be praying for you today.
Any time there is a breach in my authority or major issues to work on (and yes, many times this has happened because of pregnancies or three weeks in the hospital with one child!), we sit the children down and explain the problems we’re seeing and how there are going to be some changes. We often apologize for our sinfulness, but we also talk about how God wants us to be faithful parents who are raising up our children in the fear and admonition of the Lord.
That’s where I’d begin. Sit those older ones down and tell them that Mommy and Daddy have to make some changes because God is requiring you to train the hearts of your children. Keep it on a level a 5yo and 3yo can understand. Keep it simple. But then tell them you are going to be working on A, B, C, and D. Make some positive incentives, like sticker charts or a trip to get ice cream so that they have positive reinforcement as well as a new authority. Cheer them on, rejoice at the triumphs, but stand firm with what you are trying to accomplish.
Our experience has been that our children grow in these things over long periods of time. In other words, they are sinners who will try to rule their own lives throughout their childhoods in one way or another, and we just continue to walk alongside them, trying not to grow weary in well-doing!
Blessings,
Kendra
March 2nd, 2010 at 9:39 pm
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